brother_malachi ([info]brother_malachi) wrote,
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Finally Joined the Ranks

Like 90% of you, I have now read all the Harry Potter books. My mother bought the first five in paperback on Thursday. I wanted to read the sixth book, so I bought and read it myself yesterday. So now, I've got some things to say about the series, and some theories of what comes next.

My overall analysis is, it's good. Despite any flaws the series might have, it's a damn enjoyable read.

A few minor overall complaints, though. First, I really don't enjoy the way magic works in the PotterVerse. 95% of all magic appears to consist of wand-waving and an incantation that doesn't last a full second. A sophisticated spell for ripping apart your opponent's face and chest can apparently fit in the margins of a few textbook pages. It just doesn't seem very substantial or interesting, compared to other fantasy settings. Second, the quality and atmosphere of the books started changing a lot after the third one. It's not really the same series it was. The atmosphere changing I can deal with, but I felt that in the fourth and fifth books in particular, there were several instances of the characters behaving strangely out of character. Particularly "angry Harry" in the fifth book, and the entire school in Goblet of Fire. It didn't really register with anyone that Harry couldn't have placed his name in the Goblet, because then the champion would've been either him or Cedric Diggory, not both. Third, for a tiny, nitpicking detail, the economy is strange. One moment, a Galleon is super precious. The next, throwing away a handful of them for something silly isn't a big deal. I'm sure not many people really care, but that sort of detail makes it just a little harder for me to immerse myself in the wizarding world.

Now, for the theory section. I don't believe Dumbledore is really dead at all. At least, not any more. Let's take a look at some of the hints in that direction:

1. Dumbledore didn't have to die. Had he not frozen Harry in place under his Invisibility Cloak, Harry would've flattened Malfoy in about two seconds. Then they could've prevented the Death Eaters from breaking through. Basically, if Harry hadn't been frozen, Dumbledore would've lived. He made sure that he would die.

2. Dumbledore needed Severus, pleaded with Severus at the end, but he never said for what. A restorative potion was never mentioned. Severus could have very well done what was expected of him from both sides.

3. Dumbledore very much trusted Snape, but we never find out why. Dumbledore very consistantly knows far more than he can be expected to. Snape was known as a double agent, and his cover was essential. Snape has now made an Unbreakable Oath to a Death Eater, and killed Dumbledore with his own wand. His loyalty is now beyond question, and can help the Order far more now than he ever could have before. This is a desireable outcome for the Order resulting from Dumbledore's death. The Death Eaters played right into Dumbledore's plans.

4. Prominant imagery of the phoenix. Not only is it the name of the Order, but - get this - Dumbledore's body burst into flames spontaneously. In the shape of the smoke, Harry saw a phoenix form and fly away. This is, I believe, a very good indication of restorative magic taking effect. Know how he said he was losing his touch, because of age? I suspect that that little problem is gone. He probably rapidly aged back to a functional age, though, unlike a real phoenix's reversion to a baby.

5. Harry's resolve to fix Voldemort once and for all is now ironclad.

6. "He will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him."

So, now Dumbledore is free to move around behind the scenes and aid the Order in secret, Snape's cover is complete, and Harry's made the decision to seek out Voldemort and destroy him once and for all, without being told to do so. Stacking the odds for the Order.

Now that I've read it, I very much disagree with those who believe that Harry's going to die. Just not seeing it happen.

Despite the outrage I've seen about it, the sixth book, the Half-Blood Prince, is one of my favorites. The relationships didn't seem "forced", as I've heard. They're awkward for perfectly normal, in-character reasons. Ron and Hermione like each other, but they're too scared to admit it to each other. But they also see their unexpressed feelings as a valid claim, so they punish each other for violations of what has never been established in the first place. And at their age, that makes perfect sense. After Ron nearly dies, they both sort of get their shit together and focus on what they really want, despite still expressing nothing. A good and reasonable reaction. The bit between Harry and Ginny also strikes me as perfectly rational. Hell, Harry's attitude toward Ginny sounded a lot like me as a teenager, trying to interact with girls. Didn't work too well. The only thing that might seem artificial about the relationships in the book is the sheer number of them in evidence. In addition to the other two, there's Bill and Fleur, and Tonks and Lupin. Everybody seems to be pairing up. But really, most of them are at the natural age to do so, and the others... Well, crises often remind people that they can't just wait forever, because "forever" can end any moment. So, I see nothing wrong there. And from my theory above, it's pretty obvious I have no real problems with the death of Dumbledore, or the "betrayal" of Snape. The characters behaved much more like themselves than they did in the previous two books. So I'm very pleased, and can't wait for the next book.

Anyway, in other news, I move to the dorms in ten days. I get my own room this year, so I'm thrilled about that. Back away from my family, back to regular income. Can't wait!

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  • 38 comments

[info]elaboration

August 10 2005, 23:53:56 UTC 6 years ago

Sigh...you spend far too much time analyzing something that's meant to be ENJOYED.

[info]brother_malachi

August 11 2005, 01:08:51 UTC 6 years ago

But I did enjoy it. Not the analyzation process, but the book itself. I noticed some silliness that I thought didn't fit, as I read, and that's my first paragraph... But the theorizing part is fun. Builds anticipation. And as for the last part, I was just saying that it felt more real and good than other people gave it credit for. I'm not seeing how any of this is supposed to detract from my enjoyment. I read it because I liked it, not because I wanted to debate points.

[info]elaboration

August 11 2005, 02:17:46 UTC 6 years ago

You just seem to enjoy debating too much, that's my point. You need to learn to let things be.

[info]bitvyper

August 11 2005, 08:44:59 UTC 6 years ago

There isn't a debate. There never was. There's a post from someone who just read the books for the first time stating his feelings on them. There isn't a debate until someone starts debating.

[info]bitvyper

August 11 2005, 01:58:59 UTC 6 years ago

What's wrong with analysing literature? Reall, as far as I'm concerned, if you're not making a few deductions like this, you're not really getting into the book. Hell, analysing it is what you're SUPPOSED to do, otherwise what's the reason to have mysteries and such?

As for the nitpicks and flaws, well yeah, a careful reader is gonna stuff like that. I don't really see anything more analytical here than a typical movie/book/game review. I mean, saying what you don't like about something is just admitting that it isn't perfect.

[info]elaboration

August 11 2005, 02:25:45 UTC 6 years ago

There's nothing wrong with analysing literature. But anything that can happen has probably been over-theorised ten times over to the point of insanity. Reviewing a book and giving ideas that are probably not all that knew that millions of people have already read and done is rather useless, in my opinion. ESPECIALLY if that's pretty much all you do.

It seems to me that half the reason Ren ever makes a comment about something is to give his opinion no matter how many times he has to say it until someone acknowledges it. And if he doesn't like it he won't shut up about it. If he likes it he won't shut up about it and it seems no matter how new he is to something he has a long-winded opinion about it. Is it so hard to say "I liked it for the most part," or "I didn't like it at all," without going into major specifics?

[info]brother_malachi

August 11 2005, 02:37:56 UTC 6 years ago

Yes. Because I like details. Details are fun. Details are interesting. And details prompt discussion, and I like discussion.

[info]elaboration

August 11 2005, 03:20:19 UTC 6 years ago

It's only discussion until people enter a circle a points that continue to get recycled over and over again. Then it is just pointless banter.

[info]brother_malachi

August 11 2005, 03:50:40 UTC 6 years ago

And banter is fun. Even if a discussion is essentially pointless, it's a good way to spend the time talking. You can get to know a person that way, even when the conversation isn't personal.

[info]bitvyper

6 years ago

[info]bitvyper

6 years ago

[info]bitvyper

6 years ago

[info]bitvyper

August 11 2005, 08:12:21 UTC 6 years ago

Woah, making this a bit personal now are we? What is wrong with people making their point these days? I argue with Ren all the time, and I've never felt that he was forcing his opinions on me. Sometimes I've come to agree with him, and other times he's changed his mind. Seriously, the real problem a lot of people have these days is that they get all defensive before a discussion can actually finish.

Lets not forget a couple of things though:

1. His Journal.
2. You're telling him what he should and shouldn't do on it.

Who's pressing things again?

[info]brother_malachi

August 11 2005, 08:19:08 UTC 6 years ago

AMEN.

[info]elaboration

August 11 2005, 13:26:56 UTC 6 years ago

No one said I was making this personal. And I'm not telling him what to do. It's my OPINION, is all. And my OPINION is that I don't think it was all that necessary that another review be made about the book.

[info]bitvyper

6 years ago

[info]bitvyper

6 years ago

[info]katastraphy

August 11 2005, 04:41:23 UTC 6 years ago

Alright, I have no problem debating literature, so here's my response. XD

1) If you are Ron Weasley and barely have the money to buy new dress clothes and have to buy them from a second hand store, 1 Galleon is VERY precious. 800 Galleons or whatever the prize from the Tournment was is enough to open up a small store in that world. If your Harry Potter and your parents left you heaps of Galleons that you only learned existed when you turned 11, a handful of Galleons spent on your friends is nothing more than being generous. It applies in reality too. Some kids can buy an iPod and think nothing of it. Others spend half their summers attempting to save up the cash to buy one. The value of a dollar is directly dependent on how many other dollars you happen to have.

2) I do think Dumbledore intended to die. Or expected it. But I doubt he's coming back. Or maybe I just feel him coming back would cheapen his death greatly. I think JK put that death in there just for shock value. I hate that she did that, seeing how that's precisely what Sirius's death was, and it means she repeated the plot in consecutive books, but I do think she did that. Dumbledore will always be there in spirit. He was too significant of a character to not still play an essential role in the story. I'm willing to bet there are hundreds of events his death will trigger. But I don't think he'll ever fully return.

3) I also really doubt that Harry's gonna drop out of Hogwarts. XP That can't be setting a good example for what's supposedly a children's book. If he doesn't go back next year, he will eventually return to finish his education. I don't think he could support himself otherwise. He may have heaps of money stored away, but heaps of money aren't infinite. He'll need to find himself a job somehow.

[info]bitvyper

August 11 2005, 08:33:36 UTC 6 years ago

I haven't actually read the books, but I've heard a fair bit about them. It sounds to me like Dumbledore gets a lot of phoenix imagery associated with him. He also seems like the sort to have planned ahead for this sort of stuff, and no one includes, "and then I let myself get killed," in their plans unless it is absolutely necessary. I could see it going either way though. He may have had some kind of contingent spell in place, or he may have just known there was no other way out. I don't think either would cheapen his death, as long as it was written properly. Ressurection isn't ALWAYS bad. I kind of like it when a character planned ahead like that, so long as it doesn't seem trivialised at all; coming back from the dead should still be a pretty big experience for someone.

As for whether or not it's a children's book, the general opinion seems to be that it kicked that target age up a few notches after the first three books. Again, I'm speaking mostly from what I've heard around, but the fourth, fifth, and sixth book all sound a little bit more, "young adult," than, "kid," to me. It makes sense; Harry was a pre-teen when it started, and he's grown a fair bit by now. The issues he deals with in general are going to change over that course.

[info]brother_malachi

August 11 2005, 08:53:31 UTC 6 years ago

1. I'm not talking about just that difference. I'm not talking about what Harry spends, I'm talking about prices overall. 1000 Galleons was enough to research, develop, and mass produce at least a dozen advanced, unique magical items, plus make a down payment on a store in an expensive prime location, and probably more. That's some mad cash. At other times, objects cost Galleons when, if they were actually that expensive, anyone in their right minds would just as soon do without them.

2. What Chase said. Plus... I think the numbered points in the post are just pointing too clearly to a planned death-and-return.

3. Something will probably happen at the beginning of the seventh book to make him believe that the best way to accomplish his aims is to remain at Hogwarts. I'm almost certain that it will. After all, Rowling has described her intentions for the series as "seven books, one for each year at Hogwarts". Which leads me to believe that Hogwarts will be the primary setting for the new book. I imagine it will happen because, in the end, Harry has no idea how the fuck to go about finding the other Horcruxes without help.

[info]bitvyper

August 11 2005, 09:00:42 UTC 6 years ago

Now that I think of it, the Galleon thing reminds me of how I felt about pounds while reading Great Expectations. It must be an olde British thing.

[info]katastraphy

August 12 2005, 00:38:11 UTC 6 years ago

1) Okay, yeah, 80 Galleons on binoculars compared to the price for starting a store does seem a little off.

2) Do you really think J.K. can pull of a ressurection well enough to not make it seem forced, cliche, or any other number of things like that? Heck, I thought she'd do something with Sirius and the magic mirror he gave Harry, but she just killed him. Unless killing Voldemort spontaneously results in the revival of everyone he killed (which I think would seem forced) I don't think she can do it. Reviving Dumbledore just seems to predictable, which is why I don't think she will.

3) Ditto.

[info]brother_malachi

August 12 2005, 00:51:56 UTC 6 years ago

Yeah, I think she can do it. It's not just "predictable", it's foreshadowed. Extensively.

[info]katastraphy

August 12 2005, 01:03:18 UTC 6 years ago

Foreshadowed to the point of sticking a neon sign on it and yelling "Dumbledore is gonna be ressurrected." Maybe I read just far too many fantasy novels and draw a thin line between foreshadowing and predictability, but if Dumbledore gets ressurrected there had better be some amazing twist I didn't see coming from half a book away backing up that miracle.

[info]grazie

August 12 2005, 01:53:32 UTC 6 years ago

Lotta discussion... Wow. Anyway, I'm gonna go ahead and say my part about the deaths of both Sirius -and- Dumbledore: both were rather cheap, given the character. When Sirius died, I didn't even -know- until Harry said something about it. And then, all I could do was helplessly go, "What the hell?"

I mean, Sirius was a character deserving of almost as much respect as Dumbledore, in my eyes. This is a man who has suffered and triumphed through so much, and all we get is, "He pushed her through the door"? It just doesn't make sense, none at all.

Dumbledore got more reverence, but I still think his death was cheap, though I'm really glad that someone besides myself is thinking, "I dunno..." about Snape. I mean, Dumbledore was -resolute- that he was trustworthy, and I wouldn't think something like that would hold room for error with Dumbledore. I still think there is something we don't know about the man.

Finally... I can't remember. I'm just a little tired, but glad to force my opinion in. :D

[info]brother_malachi

August 12 2005, 04:24:43 UTC 6 years ago

Cheap? Dumbledore's death was the entire focus of the plot of the book. How can that be described as "cheap"?

Sirius, yeah, I could see that being described as "cheap". Far more than Dumbledore's, anyway. But for two whole books, we'd been hearing about how reckless he was, how he loved to put himself in harm's way. How eager he was to leave safety and take risks. He was getting frustrated and angry. And then, Harry fell into Voldemort's trap, after failing to learn the defense method that would have prevented it. That cost Harry one of the dearest things in his life. I hadn't really thought about it, but now that I'm discussing it, the death of Sirius really doesn't seem like some horribly random event. And yes, he was just shoved through the arch. I like that. He wasn't hit with the "Avada KaPlotDevice" spell. It's just that he was having a chaotic battle near some powerful, dangerous magic, which is something I feel the setting needs more of anyway.

[info]musicchan

August 12 2005, 05:25:29 UTC 6 years ago

I'm with Kat. I sort of hope Dumbledore DOESN'T come back. I'm not happy that he's dead, but the event triggered so much and to have him suddenly come back just doesn't feel like how she's been doing things. Cedric didn't come back. Sirus hasn't come back. People die...and they stay dead. True, you can read into the phoenix parts as symbolism to a rebirth, but there are many different ways to become reborn, not nessisarily in body, mind and soul.

As for book five, I really didn't think Harry's anger came out of nowhere. He was just hitting puberty, a lot of really horrible things had just happened to him and that particular year wasn't exactly a good one for him. I think he had to be portrayed as the angry teen so that he could mature a little bit, which is why his attitude in the 6th book was a bit rebellious, but more accepting of where his life was going.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[info]brother_malachi

August 13 2005, 03:51:57 UTC 6 years ago

I'm not suggesting he'll show up at the beginning of the next book, shrug everything off, and say "I got better." And I'm not suggesting that everyone is coming back. I'm just pointing out that he's a powerful wizard, associated with the phoenix, who planned for his own death, and made sure it happened. Cedric didn't have any of that. Sirius didn't have any of that. They didn't want to die. Dumbledore did. And then his body behaved in an unexpected, very phoenix-like manner. His death accomplished a lot of things, but he could have accomplished a lot of things alive, too. And, ya know, not died. Now, on the other hand, his death has accomplished the results he wants, plus he's free to move around under the radar while the enemy believes him dead. If Dumbledore wants to be magically reborn, he's not gonna go about it half-assed.

I think the puberty/angst explanation is exaggerated. Contrary to popular belief, only extreme shitheads believe that they know better than someone who's demonstrated vast stores of knowledge and wisdom in a way that they acknowledge. Even during puberty and angst.

Your thoughts are appreciated. :)

[info]katastraphy

August 12 2005, 06:01:16 UTC 6 years ago

I'm not happy he's dead either. But life is life and the characters merely move on and grow stronger.


The other thing is alot of the points mentioned don't actually point to a ressurrection. For instance, Dumbledore pleaded with Snape, yes. But both Snape and Dumbledore know Occulmency. The real discussion, conversation, pleading, may have happened through that, with the pleading being only for empahize. If Snape was planning on killing Dumbledore, then Dumbledore could have read that in his mind.

Snape can't help the Order anymore. They're far too suspicious of him, they'd never trust a word he said, and he'd likely be killed on site. That means his only way of helping would be sabotage, which would blow his cover far more easily than the cover he made. Also, making a Unbreakable Vow to do Malfoy's job is NOT the way to earn Voldemort's favour. 4 other Death Eaters were standing on site forbidding each other from doing it so Malfoy could. Snape disrupted Voldemort's plans. Never smart.

On the other hand, I do think Snape is trustworthy. He delayed too long before killing Dumbledore, he is very skilled as an undercover agent as is obvious from the fact he played one or both sides very well, and he has saved (Read: Not killed when given the chance) Harry a few times. Or at least, I'm certain we haven't seen the last of Snape. He reminds me of the very good Survivor players who win the game by lying to everyone.

[info]brother_malachi

August 13 2005, 03:27:19 UTC 6 years ago

Occlumency isn't telepathy. In fact, it would inhibit telepathy. I don't think it happened that way. Didn't need to, though. Snape knew what was expected of him. About halfway through the book it mentions Dumbledore and Snape arguing, with Dumbledore saying that he should do what he's agreed to do.

And I don't mean "help the Order" like "feed them information", I mean "subtly undermine the Death Eaters from inside". He's good enough, sneaky enough, and bold enough to risk it and have a good probability of success.

Snape knew he'd have to do it, in the end, if Malfoy wasn't up to it. He said as much. Then Dumbledore made certain that he would be able to.

No way to be sure, of course. We'll just have to wait and see.
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